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thank you all for a great conversation on the topic this morning. that is all for today. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." \ s nb m s m sn bc l iv e \ e

good sunday afternoon. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc. the place for politics. showdown at the high court. a same-sex marriage advocates, getting ready to make their case before the supreme court. the group of young people coming out against same-sex marriage. we're going to talk to one of them. and the name-calming gets heated on guns this morning. mike bloomberg puts up millions for an ad campaign. wayne lapierre calls him nuts. the irs. yes, the internal revenue service, is behind this "star trek" movie starring tax

collectors and it's getting backlash. first, we start with developing news at this hour. secretary of state john kerry made a surprise visit to baghdad earlier today where he spoke to prime minister nuri al maliki. secretary kerry is now in amman, jordan, and so is chief foreign affairs correspondents andrea mitchell, traveling with the secretary of state. she joins us by phone now. andrea, what did secretary kerry accomplish with this trip to baghdad? >> reporter: well, it was a very tough trip and a tough message, because we went to baghdad, a quick visit. surprise, under tight security and secrecy, for obvious reasons, because ten years ar the war, there still are terror attacks. last week, when dozens were killed in baghdad. he was in a secure place in the embassy and then visiting prime minister maliki and the speaker of the parliament in iraq in their residences, but his message to mallski that the

maliki government is permits iran to send weapons and fighters, overflight, loaded with weapons and fighters, to prop up assad in syria and that this is something that americans and the congress, that the administration, cannot understand or tolerate, and as kerry told us afterwards, it was a very spirited conversation, because he got a lot of pushback from maliki. maliki argued that assad is facing extremists in this country. so he basically, even though he's not terrible sympathetic with assad politically, assad staying in power is very important for maliki's domestic politics because he fears a takeover by the rebels would actually lead to rebellion fact. the message from kerry was pretty tough. that congress is losing patience with iraq and that maliki will not have any role in the political decisions to come once

assad falls with this pll political transition being worked out with international leaders, if he continues to help iran prop up assad. >> there are reports also that the head of the syrian opposition coalition reports that he resigned this post at some point today. what do we know about that, and what kind of complications could that present for the united states and its allies? >> reporter: it is a complication, because he quit today. it was not unexpected, said kerry. not surprising, but he said he felt sad about it, because he felt personally connected to him. he liked him a lot. this is the man with whom kerry met only a few weeks ago in rome arguing that he should accept non-lethal aid, training of some of the selected rebel forces, but not expect weapons from the united states. now, britain and france already moving in another direction, arguing that the european arms embargo and helping have

outlived its usefulness and they all should be doing a lot more military muscle to help the opposition at this critical time. the u.s., the obama administration, very reluctant to get in involved. we just had gotten out of iraq, are still in afghanistan and the american people are drained. there is growing pressure on both left and right, particularly from both carl levin, and john mccain, the leading armed services republican last week, writing to the president saying, we've got to do more. we've got to stop assad from hitting his own people from the air. we've got to take out some of his air power, and we should be using military force. craig? >> nbc's andrea mitchell in amman, jordan. andrea, thank you. safe travels. >> reporter: sauthank you so mu craig. and president obama is back at 1600 pennsylvania avenue after a busy four days in the middle east. he met with israeli, palestinian

and jordanian leaders but did not get a happy homeum canning this morning from house intelligence chairman mike rogers. >> this has such global implications, and i really, candidly i thought the trip was a dus appointment for us. i think the president's squandered great opportunity to actually show leadership. >> reporter: and epic week for same-sex marriage. in two daps the supreme court hears cases on proposition 8 and at defense of marriage act. daze boies, famous lawyer, ar gug against prop 8 thinks his side will win. and putting up $12 million for a campaign ad, bloomberg is. on "meet the press" this morning, nra executive vice president wayne lapierre says bloomberg's stances were "insane." here's what bloomberg said about his pitch. listen. >> he can say anything he wants but the truth of the mat sir this isn't about wayne lab

pierre. it's about a public wanting to be safe on their streets. >> more now about the battle over gun reform, goldie taylor of the goldie taylor project, also an msnbc contributor, perry bacon, msnbc contributor and political editor ford grio and dave, political reporter at slate, also an msnbc contribute perp thanks to all three of you being with me. new york's mayor butting up tdss 12 million of his own money trying to convince voters in key states to pressure their senators on gun reform legislation. take a look. >> i've owned a gun all my life, and i'll fight for my right to keep it. back ground checks have nothing to do with taking guns away from anyone. closing loopholes will stop criminals and the dangerously mentally ill from buying guns. that protects my rights, in my opinion. >> goldie, how effective an ad might that be?

how will that play outside of new york and other big cities as well? >> we saw mayor bloomberg and the outcome in that congressional race was simply stunning for many of us looking on. and didn't see the winning candidate as even a contender very early until bloomberg got involved. you're going to see more and more of these investments as a proving ground in the years to come that real money can be put behind a gun law reform message, and it can be a winning message. the fact of the matter is, i watchedway lapierre call mayor bloomberg nutty this morning. well, wayne lapierre is about as nutty as a bag of trail mix when it comes down to issues like this. the end of the day, you're having this kind of gun violence, it happened on a day after day basis, americans want real change. they want universal background checks. you know, they do want, you know, limits on high capacity magazines. they do want a ban on assault weapons that can fire multiple,

multiple rounds without reload. they do want those things. you won't see it in this legislation, but what mayor bloomberg and other mayors around the nation are doing will be a kick in the right direction. >> a lot of opposition from republicans and a number of democrats as well against the assault weapons ban specifically mayor bloomberg on "meet the press" earlier. pretty much saying that it probably won't pass. take ap listen. >> we are going to have a vote for sure on assault weapons, and we're going to have a vote on background checks, and if we were to get background checks only it wouldn't be as good as if we got both, but we demanded a plan and then we demand add vote. we've got the plan. we're going to get the vote. >> sounds like the mayor can conceding the assault weapons ban won't pass and many of acknowledging that. how much of it will we see?

>> it's falling by the wayside. a lot of people saw it coming. go back a month, a month and a half ago. you could talk to gun control advocates, though not conceding, not quite as necessary as it was going to go. this politically for those red state democrats that looked to be in danger against any anti-gun vote, this can play in their advantage. they can vote against this amendment but then vote for a larger package and hopefully mike bloomberg's money mr. president give them a cushion. it's easy to demagogue, what the nra has been good at, any vote whatsoever that can be characterize characterized as -- striking today, the lack of multiple capacity. four components bloomberg and other gun control advocates want. it's been assault weapons, background checks and mental health and magazine capacity. i think something that only

includes background checks would be the first major gun reform bill in quite some time. >> in about 20 years. >> they want something that's limits what's out on the streets. that's the next tricky thing we'll look at when the senate returns. >> say a bill comes out of the senate and comes out narrowly. a way in just includes background checks that comes out by the skin of its teeth. what happens then in the house if it narrowly makes it out of the senate? >> i think it become, very hard to pass a bill. we've seen a few senators and a few members of of the house agree background checks in traditional, bust the vast majority of republicans have been been opposed. speak boehner would have to have a bill on the floor majority of republicans would oppose, most democrats approve and then it would get passed that way. that would be helped, if the

senate did not pass the bill, not pat 60-40, but 70-30. 85-15, something like that. the way the next few weeks work out, if president obama can get a bigger majority behind ap gun violence reduction bill in the senate, that helps get to the house. the bloomberg ads might help giving bigger numbers of democrats and republicans to vote for a background checks bill that could get a bigger majority in the senate. >> and wayne lal pierre appeared on "meet the press" earlier. he ridiculed the mayor's plan. take a be listen. >> we have have people all over, millions of people, sending us $5, $10, $15 checks saying, stand up to this guy. that says we can only have three bullets, which somewhat he said. stand up to this guy, that says ridiculous things like, the nra wants firearms with nukes on them. it's insane the stuff he says. >> dave, what's stronger? bloomberg's billions or the

nra's millions of members and small donors? >> i think psychologists would call what lapierre doing there is -- the nra had a hemmer lock on washington so long because of its lobbying power. lapierre, most gun rights advocates would admit, stumbled at the end of last year and the first part of this year by being so boisterous because that's worked for him. they haven't had a major loss in -- more than a decade. since 1993, there hasn't ban real gun control bill of any kind passed, and since -- even in 2007, virginia tech happened. the nra was able to shape the legislation of the past. so i don't -- i think actually we're in a new era with the nra being very effective in demagoguing a couple of thing. look how they treated the first wave of this. social media, stop dianne feinstein. demonized her.

most gun control advocates thaw the weapons ban was eventually going to be put aside so something else could pass. the ending is very good and they have lots of republicans in fear of running, getting primary -- if they cross them. they're kind of careening from side to side here, when we all know what's going to be an eventual bill and haven't done anything to correct, to change the 80% number in favor of background checks and some of the limitations that people t t gabrielle giffords wants. >> goldie, talking about the legislation. you're there in atlanta and there's this awful story that we've been following out of georgia. brunswick, georgia, specifically. that 13-month-old baby in a stroller pushed by his mother shot to death. this is one of the 911 calls. take a's listen. >> woman says that her baby's apparently been hit in the head or shot. >> her baby has been hit in the head or shot? >> shot.

she's screaming now. baby's on the ground now. the woman -- mother's over the baby. >> the baby's on the ground? >> yes. >> okay. stay on the line. i'm dispatching it as you -- >> police arrested two teenage boys for the crime. 17-year-old, 14-year-old. they both have been charged with first-degree murder. have you heard? do you know anything how the 17-year-old got a gun in the first place? >> the gun has not been found as of yet, according to the reports. there are a lot of conflicting stories coming out around this case. there are questions as to, was there another assailant? you know, was the young man with him a 10-year-old versus a 14-year-old? the yun man arrested, 17-year-old, was he at home with his family or not? so there are a lot of facts still coming out of this case, bhaut is a fact, what we do know now is that a 17-month-old baby was shot while sitting in his -- in her stroller, and that is the most unfortunate part about this. to put this in perspective, brunswick, georgia, is about 65 miles south of savannah.

in far, far south georgia, but we're talking about communities that are -- saint simon's island, impoverished communities. people just trying to survive, cope and make it. a couple things about this case when the facts come out. cheap, illegal handgun used by whoever the assailant is was always illegal at the time. that, two it was probably used in the commission of another crime. i'm going to belt you that, three, it was bought in its original purchased by a straw purchaser. when we see gun legislation come out, we've got to see those kinds of problems addressed. because that's where the lion's share of violence? taking place in this country, and on our streets, with cheap, illegal handguns bought by straw purchasers, sold on the black market. the country is awash in them, and until we see some legislation that addresses that, we're going to have 17-month-old not their strollers in brungs wiig, georgia, 6-month-olds in chicago shot while having their diapers changed. when i was a kid there used to

be a code. seems that code is gone and that children, there's now an open season on children in this country. >> goldie taylor, dave, thanks guys. we'll leave it there. we are also following developing news in sicyprus on this sunday. the government is limiting the amount people. withdraw from atm. that limit, 100 euros, about $130 here in the united states. the small med trainer nation is strapped for cash and has until tomorrow to strike a bailout deal with the eu or risk default. lawmakers there also want to seize 20% of six-figure bank accounts to help pay for that bailout. up next, constructive or a silly exercise in futility. the growing gulf between the house and budget offices. charlie rangel standing by on spring break in the hill. we're going to talk to him. and still ahead, this day in 1958. we'll tell you why it was called

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house passing the budget ales spendsings. democrats passing with more spending and going to conference and working out the difficulties. it requires hard work, work by the committees, but that's the way that things actual think give and take. >> there's the ark tlect. karl rove on abc this morning. the two plans lawmakers will take up when they come back from spring break. the senate budget passed early yesterday. could not be more different than the house version. according to the "new york

times," the senate plan calls for nearly $1 trillion in new taxes, modest cuts in government spending but leaves the government with $566 billion in annual deficits over the next ten years. the house plan balances the budget by 2023 with big cuts in domestic spending and major changes to medicare and the tax code. charlie rangel, new york's most famous congressman, is here with me. former chair of the house ways and means committee. start with the chasm between the two plans. is there room for compromise at all between the senate and house plan? >> the major difference is that, obama and most of the country that voted for him really thinks that a time of recession that we're coming out of it that we should be creating jobs and not laying off people just with cuts. that is the difference. the major difference between the senate and the house. republicans say no taxes, no money, no investment. well, that's absolutely

ridiculous. in order to get people back to work and having disposable income, you've got to invest in education, the infrastructure, the bridges and the tunnels. there's no money in the republican, because they say that we're taking care of revenues. where the heck that is in the constitution that you can't raise revenues, i don't know. but it's not right. >> i want to switch gears and talk to you about guns a bit. we just talked about it with our last group of folks. 85% of folks in this country when you ask about background checks they say they support the idea. background checks aren't a done deal. looks like the assault weapons ban is not going to happen. ban on high capacity clips is probably not going to happen. why is there such a, a gap between what folks say they want in terms of gun control and what you guys down in d.c. are willing to do? >> i may get trouble for this, but i don't think that 85% of americans have the slightest

idea who their member of congress is or that they vote for them, or that short of their life depending on it, that they know how to get in touch with them in order to express their feelings. one thing is xleclear. the gun manufacturers and national rifle association, they know how to call everybody's congressman. >> they're more organized? >> more organized, but more concerned. you know, money cannot buy good legislation. it takes people to do it. i don't care what the issue is or mou or how much money is spent. if the people behind it would actually talk about these things as though their life depended on it or their country depended on it, we would find change. if those people who talked about health care and education and safety, i don't know where they are, but they certainly are not lobbying washington. imagine what would happen if every church and every synagogue

in the country, that the lesson they got was, go see your congressperson, and make certain that they're going to make our community safe. we've got to have assault weapons controlled. we've got to have back ground checks, and next sunday, or next saturday, we want to hear from you. wow. would i hear it when we got back to congress, and they would say, what the heck is going on with the country? they act like they're concerned. >> it's your contention these folks who are polled, say they support this, may support it, they're just not going to do anything about that support? they're not going to do anything to try and con joeljol a congre? >> what about -- >> as was said, someone speak against the nra. if the nra is out there, some people call them bully, but there's no bullies if no one's fighting back. they got center stage. you don't see -- one last thing you see, a rabbi saying, this is

wrong. a priest, this is wrong. a minister, this is morally wrong. you see them at the funerals. and that's their big day, to bury the dead and bury our youngster, but bring up same time ex time -- same-sex marriage, and i cannot think of any issue more moral than life or death, and this is especially so in the poor kids, black, white, rural, inner city, white, black, america, but you see on the television, money, whether bloomberg's money, or nra money. it's a bag of money, not morals or values. the people that talk about the values, that are like we call in the army, absent without official leave. >> have the to leave it there. charlie rangel. open invitation. president obama involved on the issue last week.

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editor. according to the magazine, it is at no other magazine. and according to cnn, the appearance boosting chances for democrat candidate liz death colbert bush and republicans, $500,000, spending face time with top republicans, mitt romney setting up a summit for his son tag's investment fund. paul rain and chris christie may also attend. and for the supreme court, a block of young people standing against same-sex marriage. one of those opponents will join me up next. check your numbers. powerball winning ticket. drawn last night. are you holding a $338 million jackpot ticket? we'll tell you. you're watching msnbc. the place for politics. [ female announcer ] it balances you... it fills you with energy... and it gives you what you are looking for

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catholics around the world, celebrating palm sunday. pope francis led the holiday. some 250,000 gathered to celebrate the mass. the pope told them to reach out to the poor, hungry and forgotten. and more legal troubles for amanda knox. 's in 2001, saying she was not guilty of murdering her roommate. now considering throwing out the acquittal. announcing the decision tomorrow. and someone in the garden state is really, really rich. $338 million rich in fact. no one has come forward to claim the prize. we know last night's winning powerball ticket was sold in new jersey. same-sex marriage taking center stage in the coming days. the supreme court will take up

two historic cases this weani s. president obama supporting same-sex marriage issued a brief with the court calling doma constitutional. >> it's not their rule to decide what's constitutional. doma was a law passed by the house and senate and signed into law by president clinton. and in our system of government, the administration doesn't get to decide what's constitutional. the supreme court does. >> and it will. starting tuesday. a constitutional law expert, nyu, and the president of founder of freedom and the right leaning heritage foundation. thank you to all of you for being here. folks who haven't followed this case as closely, how did we get here and why of these two cases being heard so close together? >> beginning with the second question, serendipity they're

being heard together. winded they're way up through separate passes of the country to converge at the supreme court. the first case, perry case heard tuesday is a prop 8 case a state restriction on same-sex marriage. whereas the case herd wednesday, the defense of marriage act, whether or not federal benefits vts to be afforded to the same as couples married in their home states. >> the pew research poll showing support for same-sex marriage, it's grown in the last ten years. especially generationally. look at this. 49% of gen-xors, 49% support same-sex marriage. what's behind the numbers? >> actually, other polling showing numbers stronger. 58% of majority supporting same-sex marriage and 41% among young people.

americans have had a chance to talk about why marriage matters, who gay people are, and to consider their own values of fairness and how would you want to be treated, and why would you deny loving and committed couples the ability to strengthen their family, and all that conversation made up of millions of conversations over the years has encouraged many, many people to change their minds. people have opened their hearts and changed their minds. people like president obama, but also the republican voice, the business leaders that we've been hearing from over the last several weeks as people have stood before the court. and younger people have grown up with that conversation. so they have fewer prejudices and stereotypes and less discomfort to overcome, and they understand that ending the exclusion of gay couples from marriage, treating their gay friends and neighbors and fellow citizens equally takes nothing away from anyone else. >> let's talk about some of these young folks as well. the "new york times" hat story this week about young republicans opposing same-sex

marriage. now more than ever according to the article, they identify themselves as part of the pro-marriage movement and see themselves at the beginning of a long political struggle, much like the battle over abortion. if they can begin shifting the terms of the debate away from gay rights and towards the meaning of marriage, they say, they have a chance to survive short-term defeats. what's the meaning of marriage, ryan, to you beyond just a union of a man and a woman? >> well, you know, marriage isn't just about the desires of adults. marriage is also about the needs of children. the reason government's in the marriage business in the first places is to connect men and women together as husband and wife to take care of their children as father and mother. in all of the best social science we have is consistently showing that children do best when raised by their biological married mother and father. and that's what every child deserves and the supreme court shouldn't shut down this conversation. the cases that are heard before the court this week should be returned to the american people and their elected

representatives to make marriage policy. we don't need the court striking down marriage laws in all 50 states. >> evan -- go ahead. >> yeah, well, actually, what was just said se completely untrue. in fact, all the evidence that's been now compiled by all the leading public health authorities, the child welfare authorities, groups like the american academy of pediatrics, nation's kids doctors put out another statement in support of freedom to marry. and the experts on child raising all said ending the exclusion from families would strengthen marriage and -- >> that's not what they said. the american academy of pediatrics is a left-leaning activist group issuing statements -- balance the budget and which guns we should ban. another group of pediatrician you men college of pediatrician

filed an amicus brief showing evidence that children need a mother and a father. >> hey, guys -- >> professors at harvard and chicago showing the same thing. >> i have to -- hey, guys, one second. i want to bring in here, one of the reasons we keep you around here. speak to some of this here. what we just heard and saw there, essentially two arguments we generally hear for and against same-sex marriage in this country. in a nutshell. >> right. so i think there are definitely studies on both sides and what's use sfl look at the courts that have actually looked at the studies on both sides. not just thinking of the district court and prop 8 case, heard hours and hours of testimony from the psychology michael lamb, the other side, david black. horn, studies that same-sex couples should not be allowed to later. he has come around saying he's for same-sex marriage but also the child custody and adoption cases coming out of florida. a judge looked at expertise from

both side, the studies on both sides and ruled in favor of gay adoption and gay custody. it's pretty much beyond dispute, at least as far as these courts are concerned that the studies cut in one way. pro-same-sex marriage way. >> evan, fast-forward. say hypothetically the high court does not come out in support of prop 8 or doma. then what's? what's next? >> well, look. the supreme court got interracial marriage wrong before it got it right. and if the court, for whatever reason, doesn't end this discrimination now, it's clear that the momentum is on the side of the majority of americans and the families who are seeking to share equally under our constitution in the freedom to marry. the momentum will continue. we will continue doing the work. the very same work we've done to win over more states and win over more hearts and minds that has brought us to this moment will be twork that will bring

this home whether in june or shortly after as we continue moving forward. there's no question that america is ready to end the discrimination against gay couples and to welcome gay couples and their families into the responsibilities and commitments of marriage under the law in the same way that they've made the commitment of marriage and taken on the responsibilities and joys of love in their own lives. >> ryan, let's say the high court does strike down doma and prop a. what's next? >> i think we keep advocating for the truth about what marriage sand why it matters. the supreme court tried to settle the abortion debate -- >> even in the face of poll after poll that shows that folks like you are probably on the wrong side of history? >> not at all. there is no wrong side of history apart from what the truth is, and there are the same polls 40 years ago that said people like me were on the wrong side of history when it came to it right to life. as we see now, my generation is more pro-life than yours and the

supreme court got it wrong twrop abortion and it create add 40 yooesh culture war. why create another culture war over the meaning of marriage? let's have the conversation, go to the ballot boxes and vote about this, but we don't need an activist court messing up american politics like it did 40 years ago. >> actually, craig, we don't in america -- >> quickly. >> we don't believe everything should be put up to a sproept freedom to speech, freedom of religion, freedom to smaer not something we take votes on. it belongs to all of us under the constitution and that is why we have court. >> freedom to marry belongs to everyone, but what marriage is, you're talking about redefining marriage. >> marriage is not defined by who's denied it. >> this isn't "cross fire." i want to end with you. go ahead. >> an odd way to think about constitutional law to sap that the court should refrain from deciding whether something is constitutional or not, even if it would be advantageous for the nation as a whole to have the conversation continue in politics. the court is a passive body.

it doesn't get to decide whether to take a case, also doesn't get to decide once a case is befores it, granted review to punt on that case simply because the politician conversation vo continue. something is either constitutional or it's not. >> and they are constitution. >> it's difficult to predict what the high court lieutenant do -- will do in a case like this, based on obama care. what can's we glean from what e from that case and apply? >> a lesson we should have learned long ago, obamacare, actually. the court is not monolithic body we can sort of forecast across different votes. we shouldn't assume this is going to be a monolithic partisan 5-4. i woulds surprised if they came down at partisan conservative liberal 5-4s. >> thank you all so much. do appreciate your time. we'll have to get you back. >> thanks. >> thanks for having us. coming up, it took merely 100 pages for republicans to

assess how the party lost 2012. our war room, on whether the autopsy was actually long enough. this day 55 years ago was a dark one for elvis fans. we'll tell you why, next. [ male announcer ] i've seen incredible things.

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1989 when the exxon valdez oil tanker crashed into a reef off the coast of alaska. how "nbc nightly news" reported it that night. oil tanker smashed into a reef near valdez, alaska, today causing the worst oil spill since the alaska pipeline opened 12 years ago. the 1,000 foot super tanker filled with more than 1 million barrels of oil on its way to california. more than 300,000 barrels or 13 million gallons spilled out by early this evening. one spokesman for fishermen called it an incredible catastrophe. >> that 11 million gallons of oil spilled into prince william sound. it was the worst environmental disaster in history. that is, until the deepwater horizon oil rig exploded in the gulf of mexico in 2010. by the time that well was capped, 210 million gallons of oil had poured into the gulf. that's 199 million more gallons

than the exxon valdez. pointing fingers, the gop still can't agree on why they lost last year's election. our war room trying to help them out, next. and is having a position on same-sex marriage bad for business? what controversy is starbucks ceo howard schultz brewing up? that's still ahead here on msnbc. [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk.

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monday, the republican national committee released its labor of love. rnc chairman reince priebus presented a 97-page document revealing reasons why the gop lost in 2012. and today party operatives are asking how much change can we expect to see from the party and when. to the war room. morris reid, an adviser to president obama's 2008 campaign, matt sclaup, deputy assistant to president george w. bush. good to see both of you. mo morris, in the rnc's report, it's noted that the party needs to be more inclusive.

president obama's 2012 campaign manager, jim messina, today. take a listen. >> the problem is it misses the entire point. they didn't lose 71% of the latino vote because of tactics. they didn't lose over 60% of the youth vote and women because of tactics or outreach or data. they lost it because they're wrong on the issues and their party has moved so far to the right, they no longer speak not majority of americans. >> how accurate is that? >> it's very accurate. people judge you on actions and deeds. your words may be one thing, but your actions and your deeds speak clearly on what you're going to do. let's take mitt romney. a situation where he said he's for all people and gets behind closed doors is and says 47% of americans don't matter. people judge you not by what you say, but your actions and deeds. the republican party needs to do less talking and more of the actions and deeds to show minority and women that they're for them. it's a very clear problem for the republican party. >> matt, how is that report perceived when republican

circles? specifically with social conservatives. >> well, look, i think there were some people that are worried about what this kind of introspection will result in. but i think chairman paribas deserves a lot of credit. you know, in other areas, they say the first step to recovery is admitting you've got a problem. in this case, the republican party needs to admit and has admitted that they've had a problem at the presidential level, winning elections. and i think this report focuses on the key steps to make sure that we can explain to the american people that the republican party is a place that has ideas that can be relevant in their lives and help make things better. >> morris, in that report, no mention of god. no mention of abortion. no mention of marriage, either. what does that tell you about the new gop, perhaps. >> well, it doesn't tell me much about the gop. it tells me about the reality of the situation, that those things, quite frankly, don't necessarily matter to the average american and how they live their life. i'm a ron brown democrat, and i

remember when he told me, when the democrats are in the wilderness, it's never as good as you think and it's never at bad. the republican party can rally around and bring minorities and women to the table, but it's about actions and deeds. when you have people out there doing the type of things that, for example, the leader, mcconnell, was doing or some of the leadership in the house of representatives, it's not about words. those words, those 97 pages, that must have been the abridged version. it must be a much longer dissertation to understand really what their problems is. but at the end of the day, it's about actions and deeds. i believe my republican brother and i have a lot of great friends on the republican party. i believe they can turn it around. but it gets down to, craig, actions and deeds. when you show great actions and you do great deeds, people will rally around you. >> i thought you were about to say -- >> i want your friends too. >> i thought he was about to say, i have republicans over to my house all the time. >> they always come over and bring great wine sometimes. >> we'll have to leave it there. we're actually out of time.

i appreciate your brief visit with me on this sunday afternoon. up next, john kerry's surprise visit to baghdad today. we'll bring you the latest on th that. and a little bit later, trading in your guns for beyonce tickets. we'll talk to one music exec about his big idea to get guns off the streets. do we have a mower? no. a trimmer? no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget. we're not ready for spring. well let's get you ready. very nice. you see these various colors. we got workshops every saturday. yes, maybe a little bit over here. this spring, take on more lawn for less. not bad for our first spring. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get ortho home defense, a special buy at just $6.88. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business.

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but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! good sunday afternoon. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. michael bloomberg putting his money where his mouth is. the billionaire mayor puts up millions for ads on gun control, just as president obama gets ready for another road trip to rally the public. details on the latest messaging and a live report. also, voting in north carolina could be very different next time around. we're going to talk with one man who is working to make sure that doesn't happen. and when the stuff that he owned started owning him, he

decided to downsize. what we can all learn from the tech millionaire leading a simpler life. we'll get to all of those stories in a few minutes. first, our top political headlines. john kerry is back in jordan right now after making a surprise trip to baghdad, iraq, earlier today. he went to baghdad to talk about weapons that iran is sending to syria by flying over iraqi air space. meanwhile, back home, president obama has returned from his four-day trip to the middle east. the president received praise from mitt romney's former chief foreign policy adviser on his commitment to containing the iranian nuclear program. take a listen. >> what he said in israel is, we will do everything we need to do and containment won't work. it's not a policy preference, it will not work. in a sense the president was taking on his own at home, saying containing an iran nuclear program is unworkable. and for him to say that in israel, on the ground, standing with the israeli prime minister was a powerful statement. so i think it had the effect of

reassuring the prime minister. and with the defense of marriage act and proposition 8 both going before the supreme court this week, it was a hot topic on many of the sunday morning shows. former adviser to president george w. bush, karl rove, was asked about gay rights and the future of the republican party on abc this morning. take a listen to what he said. >> can you imagine the next presidential campaign, a republican candidate saying, flat-out, i am for gay marriage? >> i could. >> the debate over gun control was reinvigorated today, by a harsh back and forth between nra executive vice president wayne lapierre and michael bloomberg who both appeared on "meet the press" this morning. bloomberg is rolling out a $12 million ad campaign torng, focusing on specific senators who he feels need to be persuaded to pursue stricter gun control laws. take a listen. >> if 90% of the public wants something and their

representatives vote against that, common sense says they are going to have a price to pay for that. >> lapierre, in turn, responded that bloomberg's rhetoric was, quote, insane and would not work to deter the gun lobby. with more on all of this, nbc's kristen welker live from the white house. kristen, what's the political reality of how much sway either of these lobbies has? >> reporter: well, craig, look, politically, gun control laws are really tough to get through congress. and if you look at the polls, it shows that a majority of americans supports stiffer gun control laws. but congress is really much more divided. we saw that play out this week, when senate majority leader harry reid dropped the assault weapons ban from the senate bill. that's not really a surprise, but it sort of underscores just how divisive this issue continues to be. now in the senate bill, it includes universal background checks as well as stiffer penalties for straw purchases as well as gun trafficking. but it's not clear that that piece of legislation will make

its way through senate, or certainly through the house. so this is really tough slogging going forward. so mayor michael bloomberg sort of rolling out what he hopes will be a counterweight to the nra, that $12 million ad campaign, which you mentioned. it's going to air in 13 states, really targeting senators who he believes he might be able to sway to vote yes on this legislation. but, of course, a big question mark there, because you have the nra, you have democrats who live in red states, and of course you have republicans who are not in favor of these stiffer gun control laws. it continues to be a very divisive issue, craig, and really tough to get through both chambers. craig? >> what more can you tell me about the president's road trip that he's going to be taking? we heard yesterday that he might be hitting the road again to try to sway the public. >> reporter: well, craig, i think you're going to continue to see the president and the vice president hitting the road. of course, this is a strategy that this white house has used in the past to really reach out to the people, to harness public

support. of course, we saw public support for stiffer gun control laws mount in the wake of the newtown tragedies. so the president, the vice president really trying to harness that support. of course, this past week, you heard from vice president biden, who spoke with mayor bloomberg and talked about need for some of this legislation to be passed. by the way, if you talk to political analysts, they believe that the piece of legislation that has the best chance of making its way through congress, universal background checks. so you can expect the president and the vice president to really focus on that message when they hit the road, when they go to the public. >> kristen welker from the white house for us on this sunday afternoon, thank you. >> thanks. >> i want to brings in rhode island congressman, david sisaline right now. prior to serving in washington, with you were mayor of pro providen providence, rhode island, and also founding mayor of mayors against gun, which new york michael bloomberg heads. 13 states targeting specific senators that bloomberg believes can be persuaded to pursue

stricter gun laws. presumably, they've already been nudged and cackcackcajoled to a extent. how effective can this be? >> very effective. these common sense proposals are supported by the vast majority of americans. universal background checks, making sure the background system is fixed, it's a broken system. making sure that criminals and mentally ill people don't have access to firearms. the american people support that. i think what the ad campaign will help to do and what the president's campaign will do will activate people. to make sure they reach out to their members of congress. >> but shouldn't people be activated? after newtown, connecticut, weren't people -- >> you would think so. you would think that we would have already passed responsible gun safety legislation. these are common sense proposals. i've co-sponsored all of these provisions on the house side, carolyn mccarthy, there have been bills pending to do all of these things. we ought to pass these.

we lost 20 first grade children to gun violence. since newtown, there have been over 2,200 gun deaths in this country. we ought to be sure that every single time a gun is sold, it's subjected to a background check, to make sure that criminals and those who are seriously mentally ill don't have access to firearms. we should not allow assault weapons, which are weapons of war, to be in the neighborhoods of our cities and towns in this country. we should enact systems to be sure when you buy ammunition, that you have a background check and you do it in person. so you go online today, you can buy as much ammunition as you want. anonymously. just go online and order it and ship it to your house. >> but the ammunition background, we know that's not going to happen. you know that's not going to happen. >> i think what's different this time is we have got to keep the american people engaged in this fight. in members of congress, members of the house and senate hear from their constituents and say, you must support common sense gun safety legislation, and if you don't, we will not support you remaining in office. it's got to be that. this is urgent. >> but if it hasn't happened yet --

>> you would hope that the loss of 20 children, first grade children, who were slaughtered because of gun violence in this country, you would hope that this makes the conversation different. >> so why isn't the group using the pictures of those kids in the ad? >> what the ad is doing is speaking to gun owners. a man with a gun says, i'm a gun owner, and i will fight to the death to have the right to possess this gun, but i also recognize that we have to make sure that criminals and people who are seriously mentally ill don't have access to firearms. it's common sense. >> wayne lapierre, i'm sure you saw him on "meet the press" this morning. you spent some time talking about mayor bloomberg and how the mayor has chosen to spend his money. take a listen. >> he can't spend enough of his $27 billion to try to impose his will on the american public. they don't want him in their restaurants, they don't want him in their homes, they don't want him telling them what food to eat, they sure don't want him telling them what self-defense

firearms to own. and he can't buy america. he's so reckless in terms of his comments on this whole gun issue. >> you know, a couple months ago, a lot of folks were calling the nra crazy. you know, they came out with the ad, with that ad with the president's kids in it, and they came out and they called for putting more guns in schools. and everyone's like, god, those guys are nuts. it seems over the past, maybe four, five weeks that the nra may be winning this battle between gun control advocates and -- >> look, there's no question the nra has enormous power. they have prevented responsible gun safety legislation for decades. so no one thought this was going to be an easy fight. but i think what mayor bloomberg's investment in this is, really to give voice to the miss and millions of americans who support common sense gun safety legislation. to say, we need to do everything we can to be sure that criminals and seriously mentally ill people don't have access to firearms. we need to remove assault weapons, the most dangerous kinds of firearms for our citizen towns.

we need to fix the background check system and make sure every single sale of a gun is subjected to a background check, to ensure criminals and seriously mentally ill people don't get guns. these are common sense proposals. >> well, common sense to you -- >> no, no, they're actually common sense to most americans, including members of the nra. most members of the nra think a background check system that is universal makes sense. mr. lapierre testified for it. >> charlie rangel sat in that same seat an hour ago and he was a little bit more cynical than congressman rangel is. and he said something that made sense. he says, you know, people talk about these polls and 85% support background checks. he said, we don't hear from the 85%. we hear from the 15%. we hear from them every day. they e-mail, they call, they petition, those are the people we hear from. >> i think that's right. and we are hearing now from the folks who have been part of the demand to plan, the million mom march, but they have the right to expect we'll do the right thing. we shouldn't have to hear from people to say, get rid of assault weapons, have a universal background check

system, be sure criminals and seriously mentally ill can't get firearms. those are common sense. we don't need to hear from people. but i think the more members of congress, members of senate hear from their constituents who are demanding action, honor the lives we've lost to gun violence in this country by enacting responsible gun safety legislation. this is going to be a big fight. the nra has enormous power in washington, but i hope the american people ultimately will trump that by staying engaged in this fight. >> i want to end on a high note here. i want to show our viewers at home something that caught my attention. do we have the capability of showing his cowboy boots. you represent rhode island, but you roll in here with some boots -- >> it's an effort to reach out for votes in the midwest, and bring some bipartisanship to the congress. >> those are some serious boots. i like those a lot. thank you very much, congressman david cicilline of rhode island. bill clinton is getting involved in the kentucky senate

race, but his recruitments have us wondering what he might be up to. and turning in your gun in exchange for some beyonce and jay-z tickets. it's our big idea and it's up next. as certified recovery specialists at lifelock, we're dedicated to getting you back on track from identity theft. to protect you from being a victim in the first place, we have specialists for that, too. ♪ [ alarm blaring ] ♪ [ lasers zapping ] ♪ yep. we make a pretty good team. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock ♪ ♪

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taking guns off the streets. that's today's big idea. it's called, guns for greatness. it's a new gun buyback campaign that offers things like beyonce concert tickets and mentoring to people who turn in their firearms. music executive michael blue williams came up with guns for greatness. he's managed hip hop artists like outkast and scarface.

this is a big idea. how did out come about and how does it work? >> it came about, actually, my partner, chris lide committed suicide a year ago and it inspired me about gun violence and the guns in the streets. it came about with the idea that if we could get these young people, and most of the crimes that are being exhibited between 16 between 16 and 37 years old, and if we could get them to turn in their guns and offer them to get a mentor and offer a mentoring type of program. and if i can use my resources in the entertainment world to not only just get them a mentor, but then to get them tickets and gifts and keep them incentivized to stick with the program and do the work that it takes to change their lives. >> when does it start or has it started? >> it's the first buyback program will be this saturday, march 30th, in brooklyn, at the christian cultural center, pastor a.r. benard has opened up his church and allowing us to do the first one there. >> for folks who are watching

now, thinking, i've got a gun sitting around the house, not using, don't need to use, don't want it around the house, what can i do? >> you can come to the church, between 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. it's anonymous. no one's going to ask you your name or anything. you'll come in, you'll turn in the gun. we'll give you a card that will allow you to, if you're interested in mentor organize you want to make a change in your life beyond turning in a gun, that card will be like a money card. you'll get $200 for turning in the gun. >> 200 bucks? >> it's a money card. >> no questions asked? >> not your name or anything. just for turning in your gun. >> any kind of gun? >> any type of gun. >> you just got approval for the buyback program on friday. congratulations on that. i want to show people this tweet you guys put out as well. guns for greatness isn't about guns for tickets, it's about turning in a gun and choosing a path that leads to any number of better options. how are you going to measure success? what's the measurement here.

a certain number of guns? a certain number of people? >> my belief is if you get one gun off the street, you probably save two lives. that's where we start. but it's not a specific number, it's really just giving an opportunity for kids to have another option. kids get arrested with a gun, they go to court. they have to make a choice between a plea deal or going to serve time. i'm trying to get them to make a choice before they get arrested with a gun, to turn that gun in and avoid going to jail. >> the nypd already has a cash for guns program. how is yours different? >> minh involves the mentoring component. when you turn in that gun and get that card, you get a number to call in for guns for greatness and we'll partner you up with a mentor. and our mentors will be designed to be specific to what a young person might want to do. if you want to be a doctor or an engineer, it's on us, we'll partner you with a doctor or an engineer. >> every kid that comes out and turns in a gun gets a mentor? >> yes. as long as they're willing to do the work. and there's a lot of great people out there who want to

mentor and help. we've been partnering them up with susan taylor and her national cares program, which is mentoring. we're talking to steve harvey and his program. there are a lot of mentoring programs out there that people don't even really know about. i'm hoping that guns for greatness can also turn the light on for some of those programs. >> what are you going to do with all of the guns that are turned in? >> nypd does that. >> turn them over? >> you guys got them. >> this is good. thanks so much for coming on and talking to me about it. it's called guns for greatness, we'll put more information on our website, especially information on how folks who are watching right now might want to come down and turn in -- and we should know, this is going to be first of several of these. >> in a perfect world, we're going to do each borough in new york, and then the goal is to take it to chicago, philadelphia, baltimore, detroit. i would like this ultimately be a national program. >> and the concert tickets come into play how? >> as the young people do the work with their mentors, when you stay engaged -- the idea of the concert tickets was to keep them engaged. if you do the work with your

mentors, 30 days out, and if there's a concert coming up, or summer jam or something, i'll give them the tickets. if so for doing the work, they're going to be rewarded. that's how you keep young kids engaged. you give them things and they keep coming back. >> we're going to leave it right there. when's outkast coming back? i won't do it to you. thank you so much. it's today's big idea. could the next candidate for president come out backing same-sex marriage? and living the simple life. when having too much became, well, just too much for one tech millionaire. we're going to bring you his unique story, next. you're watching msnbc. gibberish] i took something for my sinuses, but i still have this cough. [ male announcer ] a lot of sinus products don't treat cough. they don't? [ male announcer ] nope, but alka seltzer plus severe sinus does it treats your worst sinus symptoms, plus that annoying cough. [ breathes deeply ] ♪ oh, what a relief it is [ angry gibberish ]

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homes. but i recently spent some time with a guy who certainly has the means to go very upscale. but he stopped doing that. he contends that in life, less is more. graham hill wasn't even 30 yet when he made more money than most do in a lifetime. he sold his tech start-up for millions and decided it was time to start living large. >> i bought a 3,600 square-foot home in seattle, empty. so you have to fill it full of stuff. >> reporter: so his life in the late '90s was like a tv show, popular around the same time. >> that, right there, is the shark tank. >> the swimming pool. welcome to the dollhouse. >> ludacris got his own football field in his backyard. >> reporter: hill sported all the symbols of his new status, swanky furniture, fast car. but at some point, while jet setting around the world, something hit him. >> that process of acquiring

lots of stuff relatively quickly and feeling sort of wasteful and not very conscious about the whole thing and realizing that at the end of the day, it didn't really make me any happier than my smaller, simpler life. >> so hill decided to start a new life, by scrapping the excess. >> less stuff to take care of. less stuff to think about. less stuff to maintain. easier to find things. it's just overall simpler. i've always laked having dinner parties. so just grab here, sort of lift and pull. my office is right here, and so i work at home and run companies virtually. >> what's your refrigerator? >> freezer is here. fridge is here. so this is a bathroom. it's basically two different rooms. >> this is a bachelor's bathroom. if you were married, there's no way you'd share this space with

a wife. this has become his cause. he's written op-eds and given speeches. >> we need to think before we buy. ask ourselves, is that really going to make me happier? truly? by all means, we should buy and own some great stuff. but we want stuff that we're going to love for years, not just stuff. >> nearly 2 million have clicked to watch his ted talk. >> people understand that we have supersized and that it's not really working for us. and maybe there's a better solution. >> it's also his newest business. he's working on plans with a developer. >> i'm trying to take that to larger. i want to build larger buildings, composed of small spaces, paired with a lot of community. >> hill points out less space to heat, cool, and fill with things means you could save green while going green. but his motivation for a planer

existence wasn't just about money or environment. >> i think life's about experience and about connection and about relationships. so i think you want to sort of maximum your time focused on that and minimize your time focused on acquiring more stuff and dealing with it. >> now, graham hill does acknowledge that if you are married or if you have a child, the minimalist lifestyle becomes a lot tougher. starbucks' ceo howard schultz, him having an opinion on same-sex marriage, is it bad for business? you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards

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that's the equivalent of about 130 bucks here in the united states. the clock is ticking for the small mediterranean nation. it has until tomorrow to strike a bailout deal with the eu or risk default. i'm craig melvin. good sunday. here's a quick look at some of the other top stories making news right now. british police are trying to figure out what killed russian president -- excuse me, russian billion nair, boras bearsofski. the tycoon was found dead at his home yesterday. he was good friends with dissident alexander nahvimco, who was fatally poisoned back in 2006. and police in georgia have released the 911 tapes from the deadly shooting of a 13-month-old baby earlier this week. >> a woman says her baby has been hit in the head or shot. >> her baby has been hit in the head or shot?

>> shot, i can't tell, she's screaming now. the baby's on the ground now and the mother's over the baby. >> the baby's on the ground? >> yes. >> stay on the line with me. >> two teenagers, a 17-year-old and a 14-year-old have both been charged with first-degree murder for that crime. the fight over a bill that would require voters to show a photo i.d. to vote in north carolina is heating up. even though more details about the proposal have not been made public yet, but the republican-led effort could find little resistance in the general assembly in the tar heel stay whereby the gop has control of both chambers and the governor's office as well. last week, i talked to tom tillis, the republican speaker of the house in north carolina, who's pushing the bill. >> we call this restoring confidence in elections. there is some voter fraud, but that's not the primary reason for doing this. there's a lot of people who are just concerned with the potential risk of fraud. in our state, it could be significant. this is just a major that we think makes nearly three-fourths

of the population more comfortable and more confident when they go to the polls. >> meanwhile, the north carolina chapter of the naacp compares the voter i.d. bill to, quote, a poll tax. we believe in equal time. with me now the president of the north carolina naacp, reverend willi william barber. how you doing? how is this a poll tax? >> first of all, this whole process is utterly ridiculous. the reality is here in north carolina, we have the best law already. it's called signature attach station, you get a five-year felony. the law has worked. north carolina has had the highest turnout in voting in state in the nation. this republican-led legislature is trying to stack the deck. they've passed redistricting laws that are gerrymandered against african-americans. they want to roll back same-day registration and early registration. it's a poll tax because the 24th amendment says that you cannot charge or force people to have

to pay in order to vote. and all of the research says, for people who have already been voting, who do not have a license or a birth certificate, they would either have to spend money to go get one or they would have to pay and travel in order to secure that. which means, then you're making them have to pay. and we know that 600,000 people would be negatively impacted by a voter i.d. law in north carolina, which is totally unnecessary. there has been no fraud. there is no lack of confidence. there's only been one case of voting impersonation out of millions of voters. and that person was caught. so this is literally a right-wing frenzy that's being created. >> a poll that was released earlier this month, it showed that 72% of people in your state support this measure. 25% oppose it. that's a pretty significant majority, there. how do you argue with numbers like that? >> well, you argue, because that poll that was done asked people a question about voter i.d., without letting people know they already have -- we already have the best law, which is signature

attach, with a five-year felony. secondly, the other day, when they had the hearing, the overwhelming majority, over 80 pe persons came to the general assembly and said, we do not need this. the reality is, this is not a matter of polls, it's a matter of constitution. in the south, if you would have polled people years ago on segregation, they would have wanted it, but the constitution says it's wrong. the 14th amendment, equal protection. the 24th amendment, no poll tax. north carolina's on constitution says all elections must be free and you can't pay us laws in north carolina that are in violation with the united states' constitution. this is a frenzy being created by a fraud. thousand, i was interested in mr. tyrrell's, because for seven years or many, they've been saying fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud. >> and last week, he said, oh, you know what, it's really not fraud. you got us. it's really not about fraud. >> exactly. and once the statistics came out and the media started digging in, he said, oh, no, it's not

about fraud. this is about, the electorate in north carolina has been expanded. this started after 2008, when a broad electorate of blacks and whites, of young people, latinos and others shifted the political electorate, and thereby shifted the about for narrow-minded political ideology in the solid south to win. and the only way they can win now is to cheat. so they want to go after the most fundamental right in america, which is the right to vote. north carolina has the best laws. we've had the most increased in turnout. we do not need a voter i.d. this is all an attempt to roll back voting rights and roll back voting participation. and we will not stand for it. >> reverend william barber, president of the north carolina naacp. again, we had tillis on last week, so i wanted to make sure we had you on this week. good to see you. thanks for coming on. >> thank you. tell people to look at the facts and they'll see what's really going on here in north carolina. >> and we always encourage our viewers to look at the facts. turning back to politics. bill and hillary clinton back to the roll of playing kingmakers,

perhaps? both clintons marking their territory this week on the hottest races. what's behind their latest moves? the brain trust is here. sther armour, and perry bacon. perry bacon jr., political editor the grio, also an msnbc contributor. and i've done the math, has appeared here on the brain trust more than any other trustee. >> wow. >> congratulations. >> no pressure, perry. no pressure. there is a cake, actually. >> oh, there is a cake. >> let's start with the clintons. let's start with hillary clinton. i want to show our viewers at home who may have missed this, secretary of state hillary clinton in a video supporting same-sex marriage earlier this week. take a look, take a listen. >> lbgt americans are our colleagues, our teachers, our soldiers, our friends, our loved ones. and they are full and equal

citizens and deserve the rights of citizenship. that includes marriage. that's why i support marriage for lesbian and gay couples. i support it personally and as a matter of policy and law. >>e >>ester, how significant and why now? >> major. no matter what it said, hillary clinton is positioning herself. if she were to run, she wants to be on the right side of america when it comes to this case. she's seen what's happened with the president, with the president's inauguration speech, he specifically mentioned stonewall. you've seen a major push with the american populous regarding a respect for same-sex marriage, an acceptance of it. the turnout, when it comes to it as a voter issue, all of those things point to its importance politically. so for me, hillary clinton wants to get in front of it and not have it become a campaign issue for when she actually runs. >> is this just another sign that hillary clinton is definitely in it, amy holmes, in

2016, or is there more to it than that? >> it seems that she's keeping her options open on this issue and the clintons are nothing if not savvy and pragmatic. and they understand the political landscape. so for both bill clinton, who signed into law the defense of marriage act, to write an op-ed, reversing his position, hillary clinton putting out that slick ad, where she looked very attractive, i have to say. >> you wouldn't say that if she was a dude. >> you don't think so? >> setting herself up to be potentially the democratic knee for 2016. >> perry, i want to talk about the other clinton here for just a second. this thing in kentucky is really fascinating to me. the senate race, in your home state. abc news reporting this week, former president bill clinton has met with ashley judd and encouraged her to jump into that race. meanwhile, politico this week reported that mr. clinton also made with allison london grimes, another democrat, eyeing the same senate seat, urging her to

run. what is bill clinton doing in kentucky, perry bacon? >> my understanding is, and i've done a little calling about this, is he wants to encourage whatever person that wants to run to take on mitch mcconnell. this is a big cause for him to meet mitch mcconnell. president clinton, unlike barack obama, very popular in kentucky and is going to campaign for whoever the democratic nominee is. what i've been told is he encouraged ashley judd, but there's some democrats down there who are not excited about ashley judd, so he's also told allison grimes, the secretary of state there, if you want to run, i'll support you too. what he's not going to do is he's not going to endorse either candidate, but he's going to have the kentucky democrats work it out, who the candidate should be, and he'll back up whoever wins that primary, whoever they decide is the best candidate to win that race. >> the clintons are still kingmakers? >> sounds like a little bit of backpedaling, though. the idea that bill clinton would be encouraging another democrat to run against ashley judd. he sees the political reality here, is because ashley judd have said things and written things that are far to the left of red state kentucky voters. i think bill clinton weighing

in, again, pragmatic, savvy. who's the best candidate? who's the most electable? i think that's what he's eyeing. >> you know, with bill clinton and backing, it's always the clinton question. cache or curse? to what extent, when you go back to 2008 and what happened with hillary clinton's campaign, especially if you read "game change," his presence became, literally, almost a curse to her candidacy. the details showed that. now, the question about the nature of his backing has kind of yet to emerge. i think the idea of how winnable kentucky is, given who judd is in terms of her kentuckyian recognition and her cache and her hollywood power on the one hand, versus the absence of the political baggage that allison grimes will have, also coming from a big, kentuckyian, political family. >> let's not forget that bill clinton was governor of arkansas. he understands the democratic south. and i think he's looking at the kentucky playing field and saying, we want to get someone

in there who can win. >> i agree with that. >> and perry, you can speak to this, i'm sure. the clintons apparently have a relationship with both of these folks. >> judd has been a big democratic fund-raiser for a while. the clintons have known her for quite a while. allison grimes' father is very good friends with bill clinton. so i don't think they want to be perceived as knocking either candidate out of the race. i would say on the gay marriage, when it comes back -- >> hold that point. you're taking us to our next point, when we come back. could we see a pro same-sex marriage republican running for president in 2016? also, starbucks' ceo howard schultz has a clear message for a shareholder that disagreed with his support for same-sex marriage. take your money and go. that's next. we're going to talk about that. the brain trust is here. alright, bring the model in on the set! ah beautiful. work the camera... work it...work it!

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can you imagine the next presidential campaign, a republican candidate saying, flat-out, i am for gay marriage? >> i could. >> there's the architect, karl rove, former brain to george w. bush, on nbc this morning talking about the possibility of a republican nominee supporting same-sex marriage. tuesday, of course, the supreme court will hear arguments on california's prop 8 that bans same-sex marriage. wednesday, the high court will hear challenges to the legality of defense of marriage act, actionaka, doma. the brain trust is back. perry, let's start with what karl rove just said there. what do you make of that? the possibility of having a republican nominee in 2016 who supports same-sex marriage? >> it's an interesting statement. i was very surprised by it, actually. right now if you look at the polls, about three quarters of democrats support gay marriage, which is why hillary clinton's statement was kind of non-news in some sense. of course she does. and while about three-fourths of republicans don't support gay marriage. so right now, if you were to run for president, in 2013, and were

a republican, you would have to be a jon huntsman style liberal republican, who probably will not be the nominee. but views on gay rights are changing so quickly in this country right now, it's easy to imagine by 2016, half of republicans could be for gay marriage, and they could have a viable candidate be for it. but right now, listen to marco rubio, rand paul, chris christie, the leading republicans, paul ryan. most of them still say, marriage is between a man and a woman. so that view has not changed yet, but i think it really could change. >> and if the view continues to change with the speed at which it has changed over the last five or six months, this is going to be a nonissue politically by early 2014 at the rate we're going. the do you think for gop presidential wannabes in 2016, that this is not going to be a disqualifier, as it would have been this time around? >> you know, dare i contradict the architect, but i shall dare. i think for a republican nominee to be sort of forthright and fully for same-sex marriage would be risky for the republican party. >> in a primary. >> in a primary and even on the

national stage. but the formulation that we heard marco rubio make at cpac was an interesting one. and a lot of people didn't pick up on it. he did a little bit of a sidestep. he said he supports traditional marriage, that marriage should be between a man and a woman, but he believes that states should be left to make that decision. >> that's the copout answer. >> no, there's a legal argument to be made that marriage should be -- >> but then you have this patchwork -- >> that's where the republican nominee could perhaps sort of, you know, straddle the fence on this issue, to say, i support traditional marriage, but i also support states that have legalized same-sex marriage as a tenth amendment case. >> i think there's also an attempt to draw a line between the republican establishment and the kind of tea party republicans who are absolutely still hard-core, pro traditional marriage. >> i think in the tea party, there's a lot of libertarianism in there. that's where you heard rand paul have to backpedal a little bit. >> even in terms of the legality

of prop 8, the question is being raised about letting states decide for themselves, individually, whether doma should stand or whether prop 8 should stand. but i think for republican -- to say that definitively speaks much more to the political climate of the country and that it is a winning policy. >> go ahead, perry. >> what i think's actually going to happen in 2016, like amy said, more likely that the republican candidate won't talk about gear marriage at all. what you saw in 2012 to a great extent. if you're not sure where your party stands on an issue, it might be better to say very little. and i think that's what romney did and i think that's what the future candidates will do in 2014 and 2016, show more of a consensus. >> i don't agree. >> on wednesday starbucks ceo, howard schultz said in part, "if you feel, respectfully, that you

can get a higher return than the 38% you got last year, it's a free country. you can sell your shares of starbucks and buy shares in another company. thank you very much." what's the significance of a ceo of a major company doing something lake thike that, sayi something like that? >> the degree to which same-sex marriage has become a mainstream issue, when you have a straight, white, ceo, you have mainstream corporate america saying, i am willing to put my money on this, which is essentially what he's doing, you're demonstrating the degree to which this issue has become a nonissue and has become really seeped into the mainstream -- >> i'm struck -- >> disney has actually had a similar policy for many, many years. and that was, for a lot of conservatives, actually, like, wow, walt disney, mickey mouse is support uv ive of gay unions. >> i'm struck by the speed, perry bacon. we're not talking about a shift on a major issue -- and you correct me if i'm wrong.

i can't remember the last time where there's been a major political issue, where so many people have changed their minds so quickly. >> yeah, you had in 2004 all these gay marriage bans passed and then only eight years later, you're seeing lots of americans for gay marriage. an extremely quick shift on an issue. and what you're seeing is in the polls, what you're seeing is -- pew had a poll this week, about 40% of people say they've changed their view on gay marriage because they know someone, one of their family or one of their friends is gay. that's what's driving the change here. 15 seconds. you're about to explode. >> two points. one, there is the personal question, the idea that i personally know someone and therefore my view has changed. but i really think, the question to the degree to which it's becoming a winning or a losing issue influences much more when you hear from the politicians than the idea there is some major moral shift in america. >> i love your cynicism. the brain trust is back with their sneak peeks at the week ahead. what exactly will we be hearing from the supreme court this week on same-sex marriage? they will all make their

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the brain trust is back. audio recordings of the supreme court arguments on doma and prop 8 are going to be released this week come thursday. what will your respective news operation, what will the headlines of these court hearings be? perry bacon jr., we will start with you. >> justice kennedy signals he's going to strike down prop 8 and doma, what i think the headline will be. something like that. and because, ultimately, we already know there are four votes against both of these restrictions on gay marriage. i assume the four, the clinton and obama appointees are against it. and justice kennedy's hinted in the past he's for gay rights. >> perry bacon jr., great

points, awful headline. esther armah, is yours a little jazzier. >> my headline is, if we win, is i now declare you mr. and mrs. precedent. >> prop wait and see. >> that's pretty good, considering the number of mimosas you've had. >> oh! he said it on national tv. >> amy, are you under the influence as well? >> no, no. >> that was last night. >> what's your headline? >> my headline was, "marriage: a state of mind or a federal case?" so on our case, we'll be discussing whether marriage is a state issue -- >> are you trying to plug the blaze here? >> absolutely. real news at the blaze. >> that's going to do it for us

right here on a sunday afternoon. perry bacon jr.,esther armah, amy holmes. come back on sunday at 3:00, with the latest political news, analysis, and we also like to have a very good time here. lots of champagne here on the set and in the makeup room. keep it tuned to msnbc for news updates throughout the evening as well. have yourselves a fantastic sunday night. th command strips . designed to stick and eliminate odors anywhere. like this overflowing trashcan. to test it, we brought in the scott family. so what do you smell? beach house and you're looking out over the ocean. some place like, uh, hawaii in like a flower field. take your blindfolds off. aw man! [ screams ] [ laughs ] that smells good. i wouldn't even just put it in the trash, i'd put it in every room. stick it to eliminate odors anywhere. new febreze stick & refresh. breathe happy. i really like your new jetta! and you want to buy one like mine because it's so safe, right? yeah... yeah...